[csaa-forum] collaborative publications

[Daniella Trimboli]

Hi all

I agree with the guidelines Hazel and Deb have given. Unfortunately I have
learned the hard way that it's important to have things clear from the very
beginning--several years ago I did a month of intern RA work and wrote a
significant amount of work that got published word-for-word, but I was not
included as an author. There is a grey area, as Darren points to.  There
are certainly RA contracts I have done (and still do) where I am paid to
contribute to research outputs indirectly (e.g. by preparing lit reviews
etc); in these instances I do not expect to be included in authorship
because I am not significantly contributing to the project concept or
interpretation.  However, like Holly and Ann, where I have been employed to
specifically contribute to a written  publication, I think it's fair to be
included as a co-author. Since my first bad experience I've never had any
further problems--in fact, all professors who have since approached me to
co-write (or otherwise contribute in an intellectually significant manner)
have stipulated from the beginning that I will be a co-author. It's
certainlyg ood to be reminded of the guidelines already in place, so thanks
for sharing this Q, Jon. Mostly, I think it's important to discuss what the
terms of  collaboration are from the outset of every new project (& to also
allow for a continual dialogue about the terms if the nature of the project
changes along the way, e.g. suddenly you need a collaborator to do more
than first expected).

Cheers, Daniella Trimboli


On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 4:10 PM, <csaa-forum-request at lists.cdu.edu.au> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: collaborative publications (Jen.Webb)
>    2. Re: collaborative publications (Sam Carroll)
>    3. Re: collaborative publications (Alison Bartlett)
>    4. Collaborative publications (Ann Deslandes)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 03:57:56 +0000
> From: Jen.Webb <Jen.Webb at canberra.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] collaborative publications
> To: Darren Jorgensen <darren.jorgensen at uwa.edu.au>
> Cc: "csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au" <csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au>,
> Jon
>         Stratton <J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au>
> Message-ID: <4718B80D-ECCA-419F-859F-B62ADEC7BFFC at canberra.edu.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> There's pointers to this in the Aust Code for the Responsible Conduct of
> Research: appropriate for HASS as well as STEM researchers.
> Best
> Jen Webb
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 1 Sep 2014, at 1:51 pm, "Darren Jorgensen" <darren.jorgensen at uwa.edu.au
> <mailto:darren.jorgensen at uwa.edu.au>> wrote:
>
> hi Jon
>
> I use money as a guide. If I employ someone as an RA, it's not a
> collaboration since I am basically exploiting them and thus 'own' the
> research. A genuine collaboration however is one in which I am not paying
> anyone, and in which we share the direction of the research. In these cases
> I may pay someone else's research expenses for example for travel but not a
> wage, and will co-author with them.
>
> It's still murky! darren
> Darren Jorgensen, art history, University of Western Australia
>
> From: Andrew Murphie <andrew.murphie at gmail.com<mailto:
> andrew.murphie at gmail.com>>
> Reply-To: "andrew.murphie at gmail.com<mailto:andrew.murphie at gmail.com>" <
> andrew.murphie at gmail.com<mailto:andrew.murphie at gmail.com>>
> Date: Monday, 1 September 2014 11:36 AM
> To: Jon Stratton <J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au<mailto:J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au
> >>
> Cc: "csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au<mailto:csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au>" <
> csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au<mailto:csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au>>
> Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] collaborative publications
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> thanks for bringing this up. A facetious answer might be that we all
> should just become scientists?it seems increasingly what is wanted. A less
> facetious version of the same is exactly what you point to. There are no
> well established understandings/conventions for this in the humanities, as
> there are in science, all along the line (from research to write up). A
> third thing to emphasise (again I'm just repeating what you've already
> pointed out) is that we perhaps have to admit that there we have a
> different understanding of collaboration in the humanities, because
> collaboration is different, as you point out. We also have no standard
> frameworks for collaboration. There is no standard model (and I'm involved
> in a lot of collaborative work).
>
> My view would be that a forced accounting for collaboration along the
> lines of the sciences would be a gigantic mess all around?one indeed forced
> by the new forms of accounting we are increasingly subjected to. Genuine
> collaboration however is much easier. If there has been collaboration
> (beyond, for example, me taking more credit for my PhD supervisee's
> work?which I find deeply troubling from a number of angles, as I'm sure
> they would, rightly) it is currently labelled as such.
>
> Not much help perhaps but I'm troubled by these new requirements and not
> sure that we really can fit them without changing what we do in undesired
> ways.
>
> Sigh.
>
> all the best, Andrew
>
>
> On 1 September 2014 13:21, Jon Stratton <
> ​​
> J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au<mailto:J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au>> wrote:
>
>  Hi All,
>     I'm wondering what opinions are on what is enough work to legitimately
> claim joint authorship for an article/chapter.  Increasingly we in
> Humanities are being asked by our universities to publish jointly, either
> with our doctoral students or with our Research Assistants, or indeed with
> each other.  This, we are constantly told, is what happens in the sciences
> and we are enjoined to behave similarly.  I have assumed that this is
> supposed to increase our research output.
>
> Now, in the sciences, as I understand it, joint publication is relatively
> straightforward.  A senior staff member develops a project on which s/he
> employs one or more RAs or postgrads.  The results are then published under
> all their names with, most likely, the senior staff member having her/his
> name first as lead author.
>
> In Humanities things are different.  So, how much work by one person, say
> the staff member, constitutes enough of a contribution for her/him to be
> included as an author?  For example, would doing one or more Track Changes
> on an article/chapter be enough?  What about if the idea for the article is
> the staff member's?  Would a first drafting, or redrafting be what is
> required?  What about suggesting the most appropriate journal to send the
> article to, and helping the RA/postgrad through the submission and, maybe,
> the revision process?  Or, perhaps, simply the fact of employing the RA on
> a project where funding has been obtained by the staff member--which might
> equate with being the supervisor for a postgrad submitting an article?  Or,
> what combination of these things?
>
> Because collaborative work has been so rare in the Humanities there seems
> to be no normative rules for what is the appropriate amount of input.  I am
> wondering how colleagues are dealing with this relatively new situation.
>
> many thanks,
> Jon
> _______________________________________
>
> csaa-forum
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>
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>
>
> --
>
> "A traveller, who has lost his way, should not ask, Where am I? What he
> really wants to know is, Where are the other places" - Alfred North
> Whitehead
>
> Andrew Murphie - Associate Professor
> School of the Arts and Media,
> University of New South Wales,
> Sydney, Australia, 2052
>
> Editor - The Fibreculture Journal http://fibreculturejournal.org/>
> web: http://www.andrewmurphie.org/ <http://dynamicmedianetwork.org/>
>
> tlf:612 93855548 fax:612 93856812
> room 311H, Robert Webster Building
> _______________________________________
>
> csaa-forum
> discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia
>
> www.csaa.asn.au<http://www.csaa.asn.au>
>
> change your subscription details at
> http://lists.cdu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/csaa-forum
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:08:11 +1000
> From: Sam Carroll <samantha at samanthacarroll.com>
> Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] collaborative publications
> Cc: csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au
> Message-ID: <E96FE4D5-8955-4DFD-B450-80287831EDBF at samanthacarroll.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> ...so it seems there are actually very clear guidelines for conducting
> these sorts of professional relationships (though they may vary between
> institutions), but that many peeps working in universities aren't actually
> sure what they are, or how to access them?
>
> If only there was some sort of union that could help learn people up on
> this action, or some sort of training procedure for supervisors and
> researchers... :D
>
> On 01/09/2014, at 1:57 PM, Jen.Webb wrote:
>
> > There's pointers to this in the Aust Code for the Responsible Conduct of
> Research: appropriate for HASS as well as STEM researchers.
> > Best
> > Jen Webb
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On 1 Sep 2014, at 1:51 pm, "Darren Jorgensen" <
> darren.jorgensen at uwa.edu.au<mailto:darren.jorgensen at uwa.edu.au>> wrote:
> >
> > hi Jon
> >
> > I use money as a guide. If I employ someone as an RA, it's not a
> collaboration since I am basically exploiting them and thus 'own' the
> research. A genuine collaboration however is one in which I am not paying
> anyone, and in which we share the direction of the research. In these cases
> I may pay someone else's research expenses for example for travel but not a
> wage, and will co-author with them.
> >
> > It's still murky! darren
> > Darren Jorgensen, art history, University of Western Australia
> >
> > From: Andrew Murphie <andrew.murphie at gmail.com<mailto:
> andrew.murphie at gmail.com>>
> > Reply-To: "andrew.murphie at gmail.com<mailto:andrew.murphie at gmail.com>" <
> andrew.murphie at gmail.com<mailto:andrew.murphie at gmail.com>>
> > Date: Monday, 1 September 2014 11:36 AM
> > To: Jon Stratton <J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au<mailto:
> J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au>>
> > Cc: "csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au<mailto:csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au>" <
> csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au<mailto:csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au>>
> > Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] collaborative publications
> >
> > Hi Jon,
> >
> > thanks for bringing this up. A facetious answer might be that we all
> should just become scientists?it seems increasingly what is wanted. A less
> facetious version of the same is exactly what you point to. There are no
> well established understandings/conventions for this in the humanities, as
> there are in science, all along the line (from research to write up). A
> third thing to emphasise (again I'm just repeating what you've already
> pointed out) is that we perhaps have to admit that there we have a
> different understanding of collaboration in the humanities, because
> collaboration is different, as you point out. We also have no standard
> frameworks for collaboration. There is no standard model (and I'm involved
> in a lot of collaborative work).
> >
> > My view would be that a forced accounting for collaboration along the
> lines of the sciences would be a gigantic mess all around?one indeed forced
> by the new forms of accounting we are increasingly subjected to. Genuine
> collaboration however is much easier. If there has been collaboration
> (beyond, for example, me taking more credit for my PhD supervisee's
> work?which I find deeply troubling from a number of angles, as I'm sure
> they would, rightly) it is currently labelled as such.
> >
> > Not much help perhaps but I'm troubled by these new requirements and not
> sure that we really can fit them without changing what we do in undesired
> ways.
> >
> > Sigh.
> >
> > all the best, Andrew
> >
> >
> > On 1 September 2014 13:21, Jon Stratton <J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au
> <mailto:J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >    I'm wondering what opinions are on what is enough work to
> legitimately claim joint authorship for an article/chapter.  Increasingly
> we in Humanities are being asked by our universities to publish jointly,
> either with our doctoral students or with our Research Assistants, or
> indeed with each other.  This, we are constantly told, is what happens in
> the sciences and we are enjoined to behave similarly.  I have assumed that
> this is supposed to increase our research output.
> >
> > Now, in the sciences, as I understand it, joint publication is
> relatively straightforward.  A senior staff member develops a project on
> which s/he employs one or more RAs or postgrads.  The results are then
> published under all their names with, most likely, the senior staff member
> having her/his name first as lead author.
> >
> > In Humanities things are different.  So, how much work by one person,
> say the staff member, constitutes enough of a contribution for her/him to
> be included as an author?  For example, would doing one or more Track
> Changes on an article/chapter be enough?  What about if the idea for the
> article is the staff member's?  Would a first drafting, or redrafting be
> what is required?  What about suggesting the most appropriate journal to
> send the article to, and helping the RA/postgrad through the submission
> and, maybe, the revision process?  Or, perhaps, simply the fact of
> employing the RA on a project where funding has been obtained by the staff
> member--which might equate with being the supervisor for a postgrad
> submitting an article?  Or, what combination of these things?
> >
> > Because collaborative work has been so rare in the Humanities there
> seems to be no normative rules for what is the appropriate amount of
> input.  I am wondering how colleagues are dealing with this relatively new
> situation.
> >
> > many thanks,
> > Jon
> > _______________________________________
> >
> > csaa-forum
> > discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia
> >
> > www.csaa.asn.au<http://www.csaa.asn.au>
> >
> > change your subscription details at
> http://lists.cdu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/csaa-forum
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > "A traveller, who has lost his way, should not ask, Where am I? What he
> really wants to know is, Where are the other places" - Alfred North
> Whitehead
> >
> > Andrew Murphie - Associate Professor
> > School of the Arts and Media,
> > University of New South Wales,
> > Sydney, Australia, 2052
> >
> > Editor - The Fibreculture Journal http://fibreculturejournal.org/>
> > web: http://www.andrewmurphie.org/ <http://dynamicmedianetwork.org/>
> >
> > tlf:612 93855548 fax:612 93856812
> > room 311H, Robert Webster Building
> > _______________________________________
> >
> > csaa-forum
> > discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia
> >
> > www.csaa.asn.au<http://www.csaa.asn.au>
> >
> > change your subscription details at
> http://lists.cdu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/csaa-forum
> > _______________________________________
> >
> > csaa-forum
> > discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia
> >
> > www.csaa.asn.au
> >
> > change your subscription details at
> http://lists.cdu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/csaa-forum
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 13:15:03 +0800
> From: Alison Bartlett <alison.bartlett at uwa.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] collaborative publications
> To: Jon Stratton <J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au>
> Cc: "csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au" <csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au>
> Message-ID: <FBCDD6C6-5E6E-4BA8-B75D-16569B5388C4 at uwa.edu.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> There's plenty of defensive about exploiting others in these strange new
> collaborative worlds,
> but I'm starting to think that there are no losers in this paradigm shift,
> especially now my university is giving equal publication points (not
> fractional) to every collaborator.
>
> It has to assist postgrads to have a senior scholar's name on their
> papers, not to mention advice on how to structure, where to send, how to
> receive reviewers' comments, etc. It's arguably part of mentoring,
> modelling, and research training.
> As an editor of a journal I've starting twinning authors - if a paper
> isn't quite up to publication, I'll offer the option of finding a more
> experienced scholar in the area to co-author so that it can be published.
> It's worked beautifully.
> And forcollaborations with colleagues, discussion at the beginning of the
> project seems key to agreeing on coauthorship practice.
>
> Nice to have those protocols handy Deb - thanks!
>
> Alison Bartlett
>
>
> On 01/09/2014, at 11:21 AM, Jon Stratton <J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au<mailto:
> J.Stratton at curtin.edu.au>> wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>    I'm wondering what opinions are on what is enough work to legitimately
> claim joint authorship for an article/chapter.  Increasingly we in
> Humanities are being asked by our universities to publish jointly, either
> with our doctoral students or with our Research Assistants, or indeed with
> each other.  This, we are constantly told, is what happens in the sciences
> and we are enjoined to behave similarly.  I have assumed that this is
> supposed to increase our research output.
>
> Now, in the sciences, as I understand it, joint publication is relatively
> straightforward.  A senior staff member develops a project on which s/he
> employs one or more RAs or postgrads.  The results are then published under
> all their names with, most likely, the senior staff member having her/his
> name first as lead author.
>
> In Humanities things are different.  So, how much work by one person, say
> the staff member, constitutes enough of a contribution for her/him to be
> included as an author?  For example, would doing one or more Track Changes
> on an article/chapter be enough?  What about if the idea for the article is
> the staff member's?  Would a first drafting, or redrafting be what is
> required?  What about suggesting the most appropriate journal to send the
> article to, and helping the RA/postgrad through the submission and, maybe,
> the revision process?  Or, perhaps, simply the fact of employing the RA on
> a project where funding has been obtained by the staff member--which might
> equate with being the supervisor for a postgrad submitting an article?  Or,
> what combination of these things?
>
> Because collaborative work has been so rare in the Humanities there seems
> to be no normative rules for what is the appropriate amount of input.  I am
> wondering how colleagues are dealing with this relatively new situation.
>
> many thanks,
> Jon
> _______________________________________
>
> csaa-forum
> discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia
>
> www.csaa.asn.au<http://www.csaa.asn.au>
>
> change your subscription details at
> http://lists.cdu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/csaa-forum
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:40:08 +0930
> From: Ann Deslandes <ann.deslandes at gmail.com>
> Subject: [csaa-forum] Collaborative publications
> To: csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au
> Message-ID:
>         <CAJ1NW--J3FG-FHWsLdY3VZnZ=uv==
> 7ceGL7dvvdxnyZAs6UYeA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'd ask that *the rights and needs of non-tenured academics are considered
> by the tenured before any response to the issue of collaboration is
> formulated further.*
>
> I'm deeply troubled by notions such as:
>
> "If I employ someone as an RA, it's not a collaboration since I am
> basically exploiting them and thus 'own' the research."
>
> I think this willingness to see the employer-RA relationship as
> exploitative and to dismiss the potential for RAs to be co-authors of work
> they collaborate on suggests an initial conversation is required regarding
> the position of casual academics hired to support tenured academics'
> research activity in the question of collaboration.
>
> I'm afraid I'm not in a position to contribute to further debate on this
> but wanted to put the above forward from the perspective of a long-term
> casually-employed academic who remains a scholar in their own right and
> expects to be both paid for their work and to be treated as a collaborator
> when they have contributed conceptually and technically to the production
> of a published work.
>
> Sincerely, Ann Deslandes.
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>
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>



-- 
*Daniella Trimboli*
U21 Jointly-Awarded PhD Candidate, Cultural Studies
University of Melbourne & University of British Columbia
*E: *d.trimboli at student.unimelb.edu.au
*P:* +61 434 151 210
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