<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Hi all</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">I agree with the guidelines Hazel and Deb have given. Unfortunately I have learned the hard way that it's important to have things clear from the very beginning--several years ago I did a month of intern RA work and wrote a significant amount of work that got published word-for-word, but I was not included as an author. There is a grey area, as Darren points to. There are certainly RA contracts I have done (and still do) where I am paid to contribute to research outputs indirectly (e.g. by preparing lit reviews etc); in these instances I do not expect to be included in authorship because I am not significantly contributing to the project concept or interpretation. However, like Holly and Ann, where I have been employed to specifically contribute to a <!--
-->written publication, I think it's fair to be included as a co-author. Since my first bad experience I've never had any further problems--in fact, all professors who have since approached me to co-write (or otherwise contribute in an intellectually significant manner) have stipulated from the beginning that I will be a co-author. It's certainlyg ood to be reminded of the guidelines already in place, so thanks for sharing this Q, Jon. Mostly, I think it's important to discuss what the terms of collaboration are from the outset of every new project (& to also allow for a continual dialogue about the terms if the nature of the project changes along the way, e.g. suddenly you need a collaborator to do more than first expected). <br>
</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Cheers, Daniella Trimboli</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 4:10 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:csaa-forum-request@lists.cdu.edu.au" target="_blank">csaa-forum-request@lists.cdu.edu.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: collaborative publications (Jen.Webb)<br>
2. Re: collaborative publications (Sam Carroll)<br>
3. Re: collaborative publications (Alison Bartlett)<br>
4. Collaborative publications (Ann Deslandes)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 03:57:56 +0000<br>
From: Jen.Webb <<a href="mailto:Jen.Webb@canberra.edu.au">Jen.Webb@canberra.edu.au</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] collaborative publications<br>
To: Darren Jorgensen <<a href="mailto:darren.jorgensen@uwa.edu.au">darren.jorgensen@uwa.edu.au</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a>" <<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a>>, Jon<br>
Stratton <<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au">J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:4718B80D-ECCA-419F-859F-B62ADEC7BFFC@canberra.edu.au">4718B80D-ECCA-419F-859F-B62ADEC7BFFC@canberra.edu.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"<br>
<br>
There's pointers to this in the Aust Code for the Responsible Conduct of Research: appropriate for HASS as well as STEM researchers.<br>
Best<br>
Jen Webb<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
On 1 Sep 2014, at 1:51 pm, "Darren Jorgensen" <<a href="mailto:darren.jorgensen@uwa.edu.au">darren.jorgensen@uwa.edu.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:darren.jorgensen@uwa.edu.au">darren.jorgensen@uwa.edu.au</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
hi Jon<br>
<br>
I use money as a guide. If I employ someone as an RA, it's not a collaboration since I am basically exploiting them and thus 'own' the research. A genuine collaboration however is one in which I am not paying anyone, and in which we share the direction of the research. In these cases I may pay someone else's research expenses for example for travel but not a wage, and will co-author with them.<br>
<br>
It's still murky! darren<br>
Darren Jorgensen, art history, University of Western Australia<br>
<br>
From: Andrew Murphie <<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a>>><br>
Reply-To: "<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a>>" <<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a>>><br>
Date: Monday, 1 September 2014 11:36 AM<br>
To: Jon Stratton <<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au">J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au">J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a>>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a>>" <<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] collaborative publications<br>
<br>
Hi Jon,<br>
<br>
thanks for bringing this up. A facetious answer might be that we all should just become scientists?it seems increasingly what is wanted. A less facetious version of the same is exactly what you point to. There are no well established understandings/conventions for this in the humanities, as there are in science, all along the line (from research to write up). A third thing to emphasise (again I'm just repeating what you've already pointed out) is that we perhaps have to admit that there we have a different understanding of collaboration in the humanities, because collaboration is different, as you point out. We also have no standard frameworks for collaboration. There is no standard model (and I'm involved in a lot of collaborative work).<br>
<br>
My view would be that a forced accounting for collaboration along the lines of the sciences would be a gigantic mess all around?one indeed forced by the new forms of accounting we are increasingly subjected to. Genuine collaboration however is much easier. If there has been collaboration (beyond, for example, me taking more credit for my PhD supervisee's work?which I find deeply troubling from a number of angles, as I'm sure they would, rightly) it is currently labelled as such.<br>
<br>
Not much help perhaps but I'm troubled by these new requirements and not sure that we really can fit them without changing what we do in undesired ways.<br>
<br>
Sigh.<br>
<br>
all the best, Andrew<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1 September 2014 13:21, Jon Stratton <<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;display:inline"></div>J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au">J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi All,<br>
I'm wondering what opinions are on what is enough work to legitimately claim joint authorship for an article/chapter. Increasingly we in Humanities are being asked by our universities to publish jointly, either with our doctoral students or with our Research Assistants, or indeed with each other. This, we are constantly told, is what happens in the sciences and we are enjoined to behave similarly. I have assumed that this is supposed to increase our research output.<br>
<br>
Now, in the sciences, as I understand it, joint publication is relatively straightforward. A senior staff member develops a project on which s/he employs one or more RAs or postgrads. The results are then published under all their names with, most likely, the senior staff member having her/his name first as lead author.<br>
<br>
In Humanities things are different. So, how much work by one person, say the staff member, constitutes enough of a contribution for her/him to be included as an author? For example, would doing one or more Track Changes on an article/chapter be enough? What about if the idea for the article is the staff member's? Would a first drafting, or redrafting be what is required? What about suggesting the most appropriate journal to send the article to, and helping the RA/postgrad through the submission and, maybe, the revision process? Or, perhaps, simply the fact of employing the RA on a project where funding has been obtained by the staff member--which might equate with being the supervisor for a postgrad submitting an article? Or, what combination of these things?<br>
<br>
Because collaborative work has been so rare in the Humanities there seems to be no normative rules for what is the appropriate amount of input. I am wondering how colleagues are dealing with this relatively new situation.<br>
<br>
many thanks,<br>
Jon<br>
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--<br>
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"A traveller, who has lost his way, should not ask, Where am I? What he really wants to know is, Where are the other places" - Alfred North Whitehead<br>
<br>
Andrew Murphie - Associate Professor<br>
School of the Arts and Media,<br>
University of New South Wales,<br>
Sydney, Australia, 2052<br>
<br>
Editor - The Fibreculture Journal <a href="http://fibreculturejournal.org/" target="_blank">http://fibreculturejournal.org/</a>><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:08:11 +1000<br>
From: Sam Carroll <<a href="mailto:samantha@samanthacarroll.com">samantha@samanthacarroll.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] collaborative publications<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:E96FE4D5-8955-4DFD-B450-80287831EDBF@samanthacarroll.com">E96FE4D5-8955-4DFD-B450-80287831EDBF@samanthacarroll.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252<br>
<br>
...so it seems there are actually very clear guidelines for conducting these sorts of professional relationships (though they may vary between institutions), but that many peeps working in universities aren't actually sure what they are, or how to access them?<br>
<br>
If only there was some sort of union that could help learn people up on this action, or some sort of training procedure for supervisors and researchers... :D<br>
<br>
On 01/09/2014, at 1:57 PM, Jen.Webb wrote:<br>
<br>
> There's pointers to this in the Aust Code for the Responsible Conduct of Research: appropriate for HASS as well as STEM researchers.<br>
> Best<br>
> Jen Webb<br>
><br>
> Sent from my iPhone<br>
><br>
> On 1 Sep 2014, at 1:51 pm, "Darren Jorgensen" <<a href="mailto:darren.jorgensen@uwa.edu.au">darren.jorgensen@uwa.edu.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:darren.jorgensen@uwa.edu.au">darren.jorgensen@uwa.edu.au</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> hi Jon<br>
><br>
> I use money as a guide. If I employ someone as an RA, it's not a collaboration since I am basically exploiting them and thus 'own' the research. A genuine collaboration however is one in which I am not paying anyone, and in which we share the direction of the research. In these cases I may pay someone else's research expenses for example for travel but not a wage, and will co-author with them.<br>
><br>
> It's still murky! darren<br>
> Darren Jorgensen, art history, University of Western Australia<br>
><br>
> From: Andrew Murphie <<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a>>><br>
> Reply-To: "<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a>>" <<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:andrew.murphie@gmail.com">andrew.murphie@gmail.com</a>>><br>
> Date: Monday, 1 September 2014 11:36 AM<br>
> To: Jon Stratton <<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au">J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au">J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a>>><br>
> Cc: "<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a>>" <<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a>>><br>
> Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] collaborative publications<br>
><br>
> Hi Jon,<br>
><br>
> thanks for bringing this up. A facetious answer might be that we all should just become scientists?it seems increasingly what is wanted. A less facetious version of the same is exactly what you point to. There are no well established understandings/conventions for this in the humanities, as there are in science, all along the line (from research to write up). A third thing to emphasise (again I'm just repeating what you've already pointed out) is that we perhaps have to admit that there we have a different understanding of collaboration in the humanities, because collaboration is different, as you point out. We also have no standard frameworks for collaboration. There is no standard model (and I'm involved in a lot of collaborative work).<br>
><br>
> My view would be that a forced accounting for collaboration along the lines of the sciences would be a gigantic mess all around?one indeed forced by the new forms of accounting we are increasingly subjected to. Genuine collaboration however is much easier. If there has been collaboration (beyond, for example, me taking more credit for my PhD supervisee's work?which I find deeply troubling from a number of angles, as I'm sure they would, rightly) it is currently labelled as such.<br>
><br>
> Not much help perhaps but I'm troubled by these new requirements and not sure that we really can fit them without changing what we do in undesired ways.<br>
><br>
> Sigh.<br>
><br>
> all the best, Andrew<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 1 September 2014 13:21, Jon Stratton <<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au">J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au">J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi All,<br>
> I'm wondering what opinions are on what is enough work to legitimately claim joint authorship for an article/chapter. Increasingly we in Humanities are being asked by our universities to publish jointly, either with our doctoral students or with our Research Assistants, or indeed with each other. This, we are constantly told, is what happens in the sciences and we are enjoined to behave similarly. I have assumed that this is supposed to increase our research output.<br>
><br>
> Now, in the sciences, as I understand it, joint publication is relatively straightforward. A senior staff member develops a project on which s/he employs one or more RAs or postgrads. The results are then published under all their names with, most likely, the senior staff member having her/his name first as lead author.<br>
><br>
> In Humanities things are different. So, how much work by one person, say the staff member, constitutes enough of a contribution for her/him to be included as an author? For example, would doing one or more Track Changes on an article/chapter be enough? What about if the idea for the article is the staff member's? Would a first drafting, or redrafting be what is required? What about suggesting the most appropriate journal to send the article to, and helping the RA/postgrad through the submission and, maybe, the revision process? Or, perhaps, simply the fact of employing the RA on a project where funding has been obtained by the staff member--which might equate with being the supervisor for a postgrad submitting an article? Or, what combination of these things?<br>
><br>
> Because collaborative work has been so rare in the Humanities there seems to be no normative rules for what is the appropriate amount of input. I am wondering how colleagues are dealing with this relatively new situation.<br>
><br>
> many thanks,<br>
> Jon<br>
> _______________________________________<br>
><br>
> csaa-forum<br>
> discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia<br>
><br>
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><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> "A traveller, who has lost his way, should not ask, Where am I? What he really wants to know is, Where are the other places" - Alfred North Whitehead<br>
><br>
> Andrew Murphie - Associate Professor<br>
> School of the Arts and Media,<br>
> University of New South Wales,<br>
> Sydney, Australia, 2052<br>
><br>
> Editor - The Fibreculture Journal <a href="http://fibreculturejournal.org/" target="_blank">http://fibreculturejournal.org/</a>><br>
> web: <a href="http://www.andrewmurphie.org/" target="_blank">http://www.andrewmurphie.org/</a> <<a href="http://dynamicmedianetwork.org/" target="_blank">http://dynamicmedianetwork.org/</a>><br>
><br>
> tlf:612 93855548 fax:612 93856812<br>
> room 311H, Robert Webster Building<br>
> _______________________________________<br>
><br>
> csaa-forum<br>
> discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia<br>
><br>
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><br>
> change your subscription details at <a href="http://lists.cdu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/csaa-forum" target="_blank">http://lists.cdu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/csaa-forum</a><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 13:15:03 +0800<br>
From: Alison Bartlett <<a href="mailto:alison.bartlett@uwa.edu.au">alison.bartlett@uwa.edu.au</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] collaborative publications<br>
To: Jon Stratton <<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au">J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a>" <<a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:FBCDD6C6-5E6E-4BA8-B75D-16569B5388C4@uwa.edu.au">FBCDD6C6-5E6E-4BA8-B75D-16569B5388C4@uwa.edu.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
There's plenty of defensive about exploiting others in these strange new collaborative worlds,<br>
but I'm starting to think that there are no losers in this paradigm shift,<br>
especially now my university is giving equal publication points (not fractional) to every collaborator.<br>
<br>
It has to assist postgrads to have a senior scholar's name on their papers, not to mention advice on how to structure, where to send, how to receive reviewers' comments, etc. It's arguably part of mentoring, modelling, and research training.<br>
As an editor of a journal I've starting twinning authors - if a paper isn't quite up to publication, I'll offer the option of finding a more experienced scholar in the area to co-author so that it can be published. It's worked beautifully.<br>
And forcollaborations with colleagues, discussion at the beginning of the project seems key to agreeing on coauthorship practice.<br>
<br>
Nice to have those protocols handy Deb - thanks!<br>
<br>
Alison Bartlett<br>
<br>
<br>
On 01/09/2014, at 11:21 AM, Jon Stratton <<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au">J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au">J.Stratton@curtin.edu.au</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi All,<br>
I'm wondering what opinions are on what is enough work to legitimately claim joint authorship for an article/chapter. Increasingly we in Humanities are being asked by our universities to publish jointly, either with our doctoral students or with our Research Assistants, or indeed with each other. This, we are constantly told, is what happens in the sciences and we are enjoined to behave similarly. I have assumed that this is supposed to increase our research output.<br>
<br>
Now, in the sciences, as I understand it, joint publication is relatively straightforward. A senior staff member develops a project on which s/he employs one or more RAs or postgrads. The results are then published under all their names with, most likely, the senior staff member having her/his name first as lead author.<br>
<br>
In Humanities things are different. So, how much work by one person, say the staff member, constitutes enough of a contribution for her/him to be included as an author? For example, would doing one or more Track Changes on an article/chapter be enough? What about if the idea for the article is the staff member's? Would a first drafting, or redrafting be what is required? What about suggesting the most appropriate journal to send the article to, and helping the RA/postgrad through the submission and, maybe, the revision process? Or, perhaps, simply the fact of employing the RA on a project where funding has been obtained by the staff member--which might equate with being the supervisor for a postgrad submitting an article? Or, what combination of these things?<br>
<br>
Because collaborative work has been so rare in the Humanities there seems to be no normative rules for what is the appropriate amount of input. I am wondering how colleagues are dealing with this relatively new situation.<br>
<br>
many thanks,<br>
Jon<br>
_______________________________________<br>
<br>
csaa-forum<br>
discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.csaa.asn.au" target="_blank">www.csaa.asn.au</a><<a href="http://www.csaa.asn.au" target="_blank">http://www.csaa.asn.au</a>><br>
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<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:40:08 +0930<br>
From: Ann Deslandes <<a href="mailto:ann.deslandes@gmail.com">ann.deslandes@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [csaa-forum] Collaborative publications<br>
To: <a href="mailto:csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au">csaa-forum@lists.cdu.edu.au</a><br>
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<CAJ1NW--J3FG-FHWsLdY3VZnZ=uv==<a href="mailto:7ceGL7dvvdxnyZAs6UYeA@mail.gmail.com">7ceGL7dvvdxnyZAs6UYeA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
I'd ask that *the rights and needs of non-tenured academics are considered<br>
by the tenured before any response to the issue of collaboration is<br>
formulated further.*<br>
<br>
I'm deeply troubled by notions such as:<br>
<br>
"If I employ someone as an RA, it's not a collaboration since I am<br>
basically exploiting them and thus 'own' the research."<br>
<br>
I think this willingness to see the employer-RA relationship as<br>
exploitative and to dismiss the potential for RAs to be co-authors of work<br>
they collaborate on suggests an initial conversation is required regarding<br>
the position of casual academics hired to support tenured academics'<br>
research activity in the question of collaboration.<br>
<br>
I'm afraid I'm not in a position to contribute to further debate on this<br>
but wanted to put the above forward from the perspective of a long-term<br>
casually-employed academic who remains a scholar in their own right and<br>
expects to be both paid for their work and to be treated as a collaborator<br>
when they have contributed conceptually and technically to the production<br>
of a published work.<br>
<br>
Sincerely, Ann Deslandes.<br>
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End of csaa-forum Digest, Vol 125, Issue 9<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#134f5c" face="georgia, serif"><b>Daniella Trimboli</b><br>U21 Jointly-Awarded PhD Candidate, Cultural Studies</font></span><div>
<span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#134f5c" face="georgia, serif">University of Melbourne & University of British Columbia</font></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#134f5c" face="georgia, serif"><b>E: </b><a href="mailto:d.trimboli@student.unimelb.edu.au" target="_blank">d.trimboli@student.unimelb.edu.au</a><br>
</font></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#134f5c" face="georgia, serif"><b>P:</b> +61 434 151 210</font></span></div></div>
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