[csaa-forum] csaa-forum Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4

Sun Apr 3 13:43:02 CST 2005

RE. Tone of public debate; and so it goes on

Dear colleagues

Again I would like to commend Ben H's statement that, academic solidarity or otherwise aside, it is a question of informed public discourse which I wished to address and what form it is that "we" --- ie. those on and off list --- can or cannot agree it should take. I, personally and professionally, do not endorse many of Danny B's comments. Quite the contrary.

I would also remind everyone that this email list is under the auspices --- formal or otherwise --- of the Cultural Studies Association of Australasia, whose stated aims on the website closely link it to academia, namely through the promotion of "Cultural Studies" (capitalisation here signifying CS status as a formal academic discipline like History or Medicine), "conferences" (also a classic marker of the combined professional and academic status of CSAA), a formal journal ("Continuum"), questions of whether CS has a "canon" --- indeed everything which would lead one to expect CSAA IS a formal academic institution. Moreover, this would clearly link CSAA with a common, shared idea about what CS can accomodate, or at the very least a vague understanding of this fluid discipline which we are collectively in the process of forming. While some may find the infinite dispersion of this institution appealing, I do not, nor can I imagine how CS can gain formal recognition if we do not come up with some kind of provisional agreement about its forms, ideas, and so on.

And by the way Danny, thanks for the appology. I am not in the least concerned regarding your playful go at my good self. It is, as I repeat, a question of discursive tone overall which concerns me.

Given Danny, Ben and myself have all stated our positions fairly clearly, I myself hope to close my own direct part in this debate by saying that I, respectfully, aggree to disagree with most of Danny's comments, those of our list moderator, and Aren Aizura.

It is perhaps now time to hear more from some of the other voices on line and if they have anything that they might wish to add either way,

Yours in collegiate solidarity,
Jonathan Marshall

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Sun 3/04/2005 10:54 AM
To: csaa-forum at darlin.cdu.edu.au
Subject: csaa-forum Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: csaa-forum Digest, Vol 12, Issue 2 (::az::)
   2. Re: Re: csaa-forum Digest, Vol 12, Issue 2 (Ben Hourigan)

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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 15:00:11 +1000
From: "::az::" <alchemic at antimedia.net>
Subject: [csaa-forum] Re: csaa-forum Digest, Vol 12, Issue 2
To: <csaa-forum at darlin.cdu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <005c01c53740$da8633f0$2d181cd3 at barbarella>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Hi all,

Ben Hourigan wrote:
> Danny, I really hope you're joking. We must *absolutely not* argue in
> prejudicial, over-the-top ways, relying on ad hominem attacks.
> Arguably, we already do so, and your most recent contribution to the
> list contains evidence in point:

and Jonathan Marshall wrote:

> Again I find myself more than somewhat alarmed by the nature on content of 
>  > the discourse occuring within this forum. Possibly I am misunderstanding 
> the > purpose of this forum and what it is that we in cultural studies and 
> history
> can collectively agree upon.

Who is this "we" of whom you both speak? Who is this "collective"? Who are 
you speaking for, and why do you feel qualified to set the terms of this, or 
any, debate?

Given that there are over 400 members on this list, and many of them are not 
even academics, I find it bizarre that anyone should speak about unity here. 
Also ironic given that the subject of the debate -- Toni Negri -- is a 
posterboy for autonomist, 'decentralised' activism/philosophy (no unity 
there thankyou!) whose own tendencies towards calling for Trot-style unity 
and mainstream legitimation have caused his cultural capital to wane of 
late.

Nice work, Danny, and a refreshing take on the whole farce.

Aren Aizura

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 15:46:12 +1000
From: Ben Hourigan <mail at benhourigan.com>
Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] Re: csaa-forum Digest, Vol 12, Issue 2
To: "::az::" <alchemic at antimedia.net>
Cc: csaa-forum at darlin.cdu.edu.au
Message-ID: <63d4356b2fe391ed5103a589dda6adf5 at benhourigan.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On 2 Apr 2005, at 15:00, Aren Aizura wrote:

> Who is this "we" of whom you both speak? Who is this "collective"? Who 
> are you speaking for, and why do you feel qualified to set the terms 
> of this, or any, debate?

Aren,

The "we" that I and Jonathan Marshall speak of may well be just a 
reflection of Danny Butt's own use of the word in the post that sparked 
this thread, though I was thinking of "we" as Cultural Studies in a 
broad sense.

Danny wrote:

> Rather than arguing politely, we must meet Windschuttle in the spirit 
> with which he goes about his work: prejudicial, over-the-top, and 
> focussed on the man and
> not the ball.

Forget about Jonathan's and my qualifications, or possible lack 
thereof, to set the terms of debate. Forget about who "we" is meant to 
be. Is there *anyone* for whom "prejudicial, over-the-top, and focussed 
on the man and not the ball" is a proper argumentative style, and one 
that genuinely contributes to other people's understanding of the 
world? Who do you expect to take that kind of prejudiced discourse 
seriously?

Ben Hourigan, B.A. (Hons) (Melb.)
mail at benhourigan.com	
http://benhourigan.com
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