[csaa-forum] Re: csaa-forum Digest, Vol 6, Issue 13
Caroline Williams
williams.caroline at bigpond.com
Tue Oct 12 15:07:00 CST 2004
l am wondering why alan mckee thinks that 'working class' taste is necessarily a dismissive matter. is it so for him or is it so for jean burgess?
l am puzzled.
caroline W
[totally uneducated.]
williams.caroline at bigpond.com
----- Original Message -----
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Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: csaa-forum Digest, Vol 6, Issue 13
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Re: csaa-forum Digest, Vol 6, Issue 11 (John Scannell)
2. latham, labor and aspirationalism (Aren Z. Aizura)
3. RE: ALP 101 (Melissa Butcher)
4. Re: RE: wanting to be effluent (John Scannell)
5. is it possible? (Alan McKee)
6. Re: is it possible? (John Scannell)
7. goebbels (Nicholls, Susan)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:44:33 +1000
From: John Scannell <diaspora at tig.com.au>
Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] Re: csaa-forum Digest, Vol 6, Issue 11
To: CSAA discussion list <csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <416B4511.3030207 at tig.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
I guess some of this is directed at me...
I thought I was err...being 'ironic' as they say.
The construction of simple archetypes is something I learned from 8
years of Liberal rule.
But still there is no excuse for Meatloaf, I stand by that. Even if its
means totalitarianism.
Alan McKee wrote:
>
>> Props to Jean Burgess. Isn't it a bit dismissive - and rather odd in
>> Cultural Studies - to dismiss people on the basis that they have
>> working-class or middle-class tastes in culture?
>
>
> Alan McKee, PhD
> Film and Television
> Creative Industries Precinct
> Queensland University of Technology
> Kelvin Grove
> QLD 4059
> Australia
>
> 07 3864 8235
> 07 3864 8195 (fax)
>
> _______________________________________
>
> csaa-forum
> discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia
>
> www.csaa.asn.au
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:55:49 +1000
From: "Aren Z. Aizura" <alchemic at antimedia.net>
Subject: [csaa-forum] latham, labor and aspirationalism
To: <csaa-forum at darlin.cdu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <BD9184D5.41F6%alchemic at antimedia.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi everyone,
Like everyone else, I'm stunned by the election result -- not so much
because I really wanted Labor to win, but by the enormity of the swing to
the right, and the Senate result. Brett's article was very much on the ball
about the politics of emotion or affect that have been mobilised over the
last nine months.
One thing I wanted to ask, though, after comments such as these:
> The reticence of the Labor Party to advertise its policy on Iraq, like
> its kinder approach to refugees, stems from its attempt to win back a
> number of marginal seats, usually located on the fringes of Australia's
> cities.
But wasn't mandatory detention a policy Labor came up with, originally?
Until very, very recently, Labor's policy on mandatory detention was hardly
different to the Coalition's. The Labor detention policy is 'kinder' to the
extent that it aims to reduce the amount of *time* undocumented migrants
spend in detention; plus a concession to various left-liberal NGOs who have
focused on issues like children in detention -- at the loss, I would argue,
of presenting a firm line about how any kind of mandatory detention is
wrong.
Labor also supported the 2003 federal anti-terrorism legislation (although
various left-Laborites didn't) and really, was the Latham stance on Iraq so
much more preferable? I read the 'Troops Home By Christmas' malarkey as a
badly designed Whitlam performance. I say 'performance' because I think
that's exactly what it was: a cynical attempt to mobilise ex-Whitlam voters'
nostalgic memories of the Vietnam war, and on the way pick up the approval
of the 'numerous' anti-war protesters -- who, by that time, had vanished
into the ether. The famous 800 troops would have been redeployed in Iraq on
'humanitarian' missions, not sent home.
There are other, more scary ALP policies that are worth mentioning here:
Latham's promise that every school-leaver would be working or studying
rather than unemployed -- more decimation of the dole, anyone? And people in
NSW can look to Bob Carr to figure out what racialised politics might be
like under Latham: more 'left' xenophobia/nationalism and panic about
migrants taking 'our' jobs, gangs etc etc etc.
I think all this will be evident to Brett and to many others. What interests
me, however, is how even though I knew Labor was no better than the Liberal
Party, part of me still wanted Labor to win. I was anticipating a
generalised moment of enthusiasm on the left followed by anger and
recrimination, not unlike the UK liberal left's response to Tony Blair --
and yet I still felt shattered on Saturday night.
I don't think this is an isolated phenomenon, given the previous posts. And
I want to understand why this is so. Apart from demonstrating the failures
of majoritarian politics, as Brett noted, what does it mean when a
significant proportion of the population really cares more about their
mortgages than other people and vote Liberal? What does it mean when another
significant proportion of the population can pretend (even momentarily) that
we're being offered any kind of viable alternative in Latham's Labor?
Aren Aizura
_________________________________________
"There's no need to fear or hope, but only to look for new weapons."
(gilles deleuze)
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:43:39 +1000
From: "Melissa Butcher" <melissa at riap.usyd.edu.au>
Subject: RE: [csaa-forum] ALP 101
To: "CSAA discussion list" <csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au>
Message-ID:
<F6263763864E574E8213522884C275EE0E6A39 at riapserv.riap.usyd.edu.au>
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With the greatest love and respect folks are we not being a little bit
'ivory tower' here? If anyone is angsting about 'the masses' seeming
inability to listen to any of our words of wisdom some of the recent
comments on the list might give an indication as to why they tune out.
Cheers
Melissa B. (who thinks 'Bat out of Hell' is a classic, loves 'Kath and
Kim', send up or not, owns not Freedom Furniture but even worse ...
IKEA, is quite partial to Fondue, and despite her occassional white
trash behaviour is still capable of the odd critical thought).
-----Original Message-----
From: csaa-forum-bounces at lists.cdu.edu.au
[mailto:csaa-forum-bounces at lists.cdu.edu.au] On Behalf Of John Scannell
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 11:28 AM
To: CSAA discussion list
Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] ALP 101
I read an interview or Q&A at some stage where Latham was asked about
his favourite musical artist...
His reply (much to my own personal horror) was 'Meatloaf'.
When Ian says...'Maybe Kath and Kim is not such a sendup/comedy after
all?'
Well I can only say with much sadness that it is not.
Which is why I can't watch it because there are some things so spot on
that it makes me ill.
Latham lost the battle for white trash supremacy - WWE showdown style.
I loved Sally's
>I can't help but think that Australia is dominated by the Freedom
>Furniture Flunkies who can't think beyond Macro-suede couches, fake
>mohair throws and fondue sets.
>
Don't forget the Hillsong Church CDs.
Great music for the showdown (WWE style) between Good and Evil currently
being orchestrated in Iraq.
If I was part of the Labor machine I would have gotten Latham to 'find
Jeeeeeeeeesuss' and quick smart.
OK, maybe not. What to do?
>
_______________________________________
csaa-forum
discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia
www.csaa.asn.au
_______________________
Melissa Butcher
Research Institute for Asia and the Pacific
Level 2 G12, 353 Abercrombie Street
The University of Sydney
Australia NSW 2002
Tel: +612 9351 8540/8547
Fax: +612 9351 8562
Email: melissa.butcher at riap.usyd.edu.au
Web: www.riap.usyd.edu.au
"Have patience with everything unresolved and try to love the questions
themselves" (Rainer Maria Rilke)
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:07:44 +1000
From: John Scannell <diaspora at tig.com.au>
Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] RE: wanting to be effluent
To: CSAA discussion list <csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <416B4A80.5000606 at tig.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Mel
Your 'bogan' project is an insightful one...actually it also draws my
attention to the fact that I have always seen a rather strict
delineation between the bogan and what I perceive as the 'white trash'
threat.
I know we don't use that term bogan here in NSW, discourse being what it
is, but I have empathy with Bogans/Westies but find myself at odds with
white trash, mainly because of the element of delusional aspiration that
I ascribe to the latter.
For instance, in a Sydney based context I see Westies/Bogans as more
working class and aware of their marginalisation whereas for me 'white
trash' is the working class that think they are upwardly mobile and
forget how they acheived that mobility which is representing more and
more of this vaguely identified majoritarian group.
So you could say that Westies are not the same people as those that hail
from 'the Shire' - the Sutherland Shire in Sydney - who all swung to
Pauline Hanson a few years back and have swung to the Liberals again
now. Many of the Westies do listen to Meatloaf but they have probably
burnt the CDs rather than go to Miranda Fair to buy them.
A great analogy can be found in Woody Allen's Small Time Crooks, which
although maligned by critics at the time I found to be much more
insightful about what the former working class does when its finds its
out of its depth in the cultural capital stakes. Far more insightful
than say a movie such as The Castle which has all of its archetypes
screwed up and pissed me off no end. Kath and Kim is similar in this
respect (although closer to white trash than boganism, they way I see
it). You can sort me out on that.
Mark Latham needs to be more aware of this delineation (and I can offer
my services to the Labor party).
They could easily get hold of the lists of subscribers to 'the Franklin
Mint' and the Hillsong Church for a start.
This would help identify the those that they have lost forever and who
probably now live or are planning to live on the NSW central coast.
John
Mel Campbell wrote:
> Jean said: "I have to stick my head up here and object to the
> conflation that is going on here between (bad/debased) taste patterns,
> (low) class locations and the replacement of issues-based with
> aspirational politics, if that is indeed what's going on."
>
> In turn I feel I must stick my head up here and say that even though I
> now hate my MA thesis and never want to revisit its stupid topic ever
> again, its main contention was that certain concepts (or discourses,
> as I Foucauldianly branded them) can be represented in the media as
> "identity categories" in order to smooth over temporarily the
> potential for political disquiet in Australia.
>
> The example I used in the accursed thesis was the concept of the
> "bogan". I argued that 'bogan' is not a class. It's not a subculture.
> It's not an aesthetic. It's not a 'real' group of people at all.
> Instead, it's a technique, most visibly deployed in Australian
> media, and most clearly so over the last ten or so years, for
> polarising Australian society while reinforcing the social agenda of
> the government or ruling social group of the day.
>
> In the case of the Howard government, parochial and long-standing
> 'Australian values' have been re-articulated through the figure of the
> bogan (and similar undesirable "others") to serve their
> neo-liberal ideological interests. For example, the "battler" and the
> "fair go" have become "mutual obligation", "queue-jumpers", economic
> self-interest, and the systematic shift from public to private sector.
> And you know, I don't see Mark Latham as being substantially different
> on many of these issues, particularly his obsessive focus on
> individualism.
>
> But small-l liberals can be just as divisive. For example, the failure
> of the republican referendum was interpreted by republican supporters
> at the time as an "attack of the bogans", those ill-informed morons
> who would be left-leaning if only they were smart enough. That's why I
> find it patronising when I hear people bemoaning the stupidity of the
> Australian electorate last weekend.
>
> Taste patterns, as Jean points out, are an important way of
> representing this cultural divide. I actually had a chapter about Kath
> & Kim in the damn thesis. I argued then (and still believe) that the
> real issue for us is to analyse how social divisions are constructed
> through the media, rather than reproducing them in our own thinking.
>
> But might I add that I am no longer interested in the specific issue
> of bogans. I just wanted to draw your attention to a wider social
> technique that I see operating in Australia.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mel.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Find local movie times and trailers on *Yahoo! Movies.*
> <http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/*http://au.movies.yahoo.com>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________
>
>csaa-forum
>discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia
>
>www.csaa.asn.au
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:03:14 +1000
From: Alan McKee <a.mckee at qut.edu.au>
Subject: [csaa-forum] is it possible?
To: csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20041012130221.0128e498 at pop.qut.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>Is it possible to be intelligent, informed and ethically-aware and vote
>for a right wing party?
Alan McKee, PhD
Film and Television
Creative Industries Precinct
Queensland University of Technology
Kelvin Grove
QLD 4059
Australia
07 3864 8235
07 3864 8195 (fax)
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:13:25 +1000
From: John Scannell <diaspora at tig.com.au>
Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] is it possible?
To: CSAA discussion list <csaa-forum at lists.cdu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <416B4BD5.1060907 at tig.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
A good question - Like 'Liberals for Forests'?
Alan McKee wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to be intelligent, informed and ethically-aware and
>> vote for a right wing party?
>
>
> Alan McKee, PhD
> Film and Television
> Creative Industries Precinct
> Queensland University of Technology
> Kelvin Grove
> QLD 4059
> Australia
>
> 07 3864 8235
> 07 3864 8195 (fax)
>
> _______________________________________
>
> csaa-forum
> discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia
>
> www.csaa.asn.au
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:13:28 +1000
From: "Nicholls, Susan" <Susan.Nicholls at canberra.edu.au>
Subject: [csaa-forum] goebbels
To: "CSAA discussion list" <csaa-forum at darlin.cdu.edu.au>
Message-ID:
<8A6248246535CF4DB0DDB9D0546721570228EED2 at spirilium.canberra.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks for your note :o) Actually I find myself being somewhat cheered by the ongoing response in csaa forum. It's making me feel less minoritised.
It so happens that I am teaching my first-year professional communication students about propaganda, and came across that quote. It is really quite frightening how many of the classic propaganda techniques were used by the coalition during the election campaign.
Best,
Susan
_____________________________
Dr Susan Nicholls
School of Professional Communication
Division of Communication and Education
University of Canberra
Tel 02 6201 5720
_____________________________
> ----------
> From: Natalya Lusty
> Reply To: CSAA discussion list
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:27 PM
> To: CSAA discussion list
> Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] FW: ::fibreculture:: The politics of emotion/ Aspirations in the suburbs
>
> <<File: ATT126995.txt>>
> sorry to flood your inbox - but the Goebbels quote is seriously scary because it is so apt.
> ...obviously still very depressed :(
> I wonder what Meaghan will have to say about it all!!!
>
> Nicholls, Susan wrote:
>
>
> Shock is right. Profound melancholy is another emotion today. Thanks, Danny, for posting Brett's most interesting analysis. Here is further food for thought.
>
> 'By simplifying the thoughts of the masses and reducing them to primitive patterns, propaganda was able to present the complex process of political and economic life in the simplest terms. ... We have taken matters previously available only to experts and ... hammered them into the brain of the little man.' - Josef Goebbels
>
> Also known as: 'It's the economy, stupid', plus that peculiar amalgam of 'you've never had it so good' (appeal to greed) sitting cheek-by-jowl with 'we'll all be ruined (if you choose the other mob)' (appeal to fear).
>
> It's the Family First party that is the dark horse here - they came from nowhere to (probably) holding the balance in the Senate. Ye gods.
>
> Susan
> _____________________________
> Dr Susan Nicholls
> School of Professional Communication
> Division of Communication and Education
> University of Canberra
>
> Tel 02 6201 5720
> _____________________________
>
>
>
> ----------
> From: Danny Butt
> Reply To: CSAA discussion list
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 2:54 PM
> To: csaa-forum
> Subject: [csaa-forum] FW: ::fibreculture:: The politics of emotion / Aspirations in the suburbs
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I can imagine most of the Australians on this list are in a state of shock
> :7, but nevertheless I'd be interested to hear the on-the-ground reactions
> to the, uh, "commanding" performance by Howard over the weekend, and what it
> means for Australian culture or its study. I hope Brett doesn't mind me
> forwarding this from Fibreculture, but it was one of the most insightful
> discussions I've come across - relevant to this group, and worthy of wider
> exposure. There are also some parallels to be drawn in the prevailing
> political mood perhaps with the terribly sad news of Derrida - I'm thinking
> of the awful attacks on his work from Chomsky, the Cambridge people etc.
> that seem motivated by a similar register of fear that Howard plays upon so
> ruthlessly. Being good, or right, is obviously less important than being
> familiar.
>
> ------ Forwarded Message
> From: Brett Neilson <b.neilson at uws.edu.au>
> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 11:48:46 +1000
> To: <fibreculture at lists.myspinach.org>
> Subject: ::fibreculture:: Sad news overnight
>
> Sad news overnight, the death of Jacques Derrida.
>
> On that other altogether more tired and predictable business, I'll post a
> piece (written a few days back) that was published in the Italian newspaper
> _Il Manifesto_ yesterday, 9 October.
>
> Available in Italian at:
> http://www.ilmanifesto.it/Quotidiano-archivio/09-Ottobre-2004/art42.html>
>
>
> There's another sum-up piece that I wrote last night, but I'll post that
> when it's published in a few days time.
>
>
>
> The politics of emotion.
> Aspirations in the suburbs. And ours?
>
> BRETT NEILSON
>
> It would be foolish to believe that an election in Australia could alter
> the current course of global power. Nor does anyone in Australia seriously
> expect that a change of government would change life on the ground much at
> all. Yet, at the international level, the contest between Howard and Latham
> (due to be decided on 9 October) could have effects as significant of those
> of the Spanish election of March 2004. If the Labor Party candidate, Mark
> Latham, wins, the 800 or so Australian troops in Iraq will be withdrawn by
> Christmas. This would be the first withdrawal by a coalition-of-the-willing
> country that has been in Iraq since the beginning of the current U.S.-led
> invasion. But nobody in Australia is discussing this possibility, least of
> all Latham himself. Rather, the talk is about the traditional issues that
> divide the political parties in Australia: health, education, taxes,
> interest rates, and economic management. Like the question of refugees and>
> border control, which virtually decided the last election, the issue of war
> has disappeared in the last days of the campaign, overshadowed by domestic
> issues and cynical attempts to micro-reward swing voters.
>
> The reticence of the Labor Party to advertise its policy on Iraq, like its
> kinder approach to refugees, stems from its attempt to win back a number of
> marginal seats, usually located on the fringes of Australia's cities. These
> largely working class areas had always voted Labor, at least until 1996
> when they voted for the conservative John Howard, who has maintained a
> stronghold on national politics ever since. Often dubbed the 'aspirational
> classes,' the populace of these areas is typically disinvested in the
> processes of representative democracy, concerned about their opportunities
> for social and economic betterment, susceptible to the affective claims of
> nationalism, and harsh in their attitudes to refugees (although many were
> migrants to Australia themselves). The moderate Latham, 43 years-old and
> Australia's closest answer to a third-way politician, himself grew up in
> one of these areas: the vast suburban sprawl of Western Sydney. And his
> predominant rhetoric, which speaks of erecting a 'ladder of opportunity'
> for all Australians, appeals to these 'aspirational' values. Tuned to the
> findings of focus groups and opinion polls, Latham's message has gradually
> been stripped of all reference to the war, border control, or contentious
> issues such as gay marriage. And the result is boring politics, a campaign
> of social engineering (with the promised expenditures carefully matched by
> Howard at every step) that has failed to capture the attention (let alone
> the imagination) of the voters.
>
> The problem for Labor is how to win back the 'aspirational' suburban seats
> without alienating their other base: the middle class, university educated
> constituencies who generally live closer to the city centres. These groups
> also deserted the Labor Party in the election of November 2001, fleeing
> mainly to the Greens (a party allied to the likes of Daniel Cohn Bendit and
> Joshka Fischer) when Kim Beasley, the former Labor leader, attempted to
> match Howard's rhetoric on security and border control in the wake of 11
> September. But this time around, the desertion to the Greens is unlikely to
> affect only the Labor vote. There are also many people who live in affluent
> conservative seats who are threatening to vote Green to protest Howard's
> pro-Bush stance on the war, refusal to sign the Kyoto protocol, and brutal>
> treatment of asylum seekers. Derisively labeled 'doctors' wives' by
> conservative spin doctors, these voters are unlikely to shift the balance
> of power in the lower house. But they do threaten to give the Greens more
> leverage in the upper house, a factor that would make life difficult for
> the major party that wins office (so much so that Howard has struck a deal
> with the Christianity-based party Family First to minimize this effect).
>
> It is at this level that the contest in Australia is most interesting. Not
> because the policies of the Greens, which often take the form of an
> anti-Americanism with strong nationalist/protectionist implications, are
> particularly novel, but because the hate that circulates for Howard, and in
> particular for his position on Iraq, is the strongest emotional force that
> traverses the electorate. Such feeling is unlikely to pierce through the
> elaborate apparatus of image construction, swing vote capture, and focus
> group policy-making that has become the disease of majoritarian politics.
> But it carries a lesson, even for those of us committed to a
> post-representative democracy that does not take the seizure of political
> power at the level of the nation-state as its primary objective. If Latham
> is unlikely to win, it is not because his message fails to resonate with>
> the 'aspirational' voters he has targeted. Rather it is because, in a media
> saturated culture, the emotional modulation of voters tends to outweigh
> their openness to arguments of truth and falsity. Fear, insecurity, and
> precariousness are the order of the day. And this is what the conservative
> side of politics, in Australia as elsewhere, has manipulated through a
> skilful exploitation of the relations between sense and sensitivity. If the
> left is to respond, it must find something more than a leader who can win a
> debate but is unable to win an election.
>
>
>
> Free Trade in the Bermuda Triangle ... and Other Tales of
> Counterglobalization
> http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/N/neilson_free.html
>
>
>
>
> ::posted on ::fibreculture:: mailinglist for australasian
> ::critical internet theory, culture and research
> ::(un) subscribe info and archive: http://www.fibreculture.org
> ::please send announcements to separate mailinglist:
> :: http://lists.myspinach.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fibreculture-announce
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
>
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>
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> discussion list of the cultural studies association of australasia
>
> www.csaa.asn.au
>
>
>
>
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>
> www.csaa.asn.au
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