[csaa-forum] RE: wanting to be effluent

[John Scannell]

Amanda

Some of my best friends are from the Sutherland Shire.
In fact I knew I'd cop it when I mentioned 'the Shire'.

>What makes your so called 'white trash' of Sutherland shire 'delusional
>aspirationals'? 
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I didn't intimate that all of Sutherland Shire was 'white trash' and if 
I did I apologise. But the Shire is still heavily Anglo by Sydney 
standards - there are a lot of British Ex-pats down there and its all 
very insular and creepy.

>What about the invisible (to you) comfortable middle classes of the
>northern suburbs? 
>
Actually the reality is I probably have more relation to this group than 
I do the people you mention. I mean there is more chance of me calling 
my child Eloise than say Epponnee. More chances of me looking at an 
Italian suit than a Commemorative Cat plate. In fact that is THE PROBLEM 
that the left must identify...(err not the child names...) but the 
complexity of the situation. I was being deliberately provocative, only 
because polemics (among left wing friends) will get people a little 
pissed off and continue the discussion...

>What makes them not? Is it because 'white trash' spend
>their money on the wrong things? 
>
Yes. Because it is the white trash who will buy a plasma TV to get a 
better reception on Foxtel instead of a book. Hence the problem...The 
real money people just hang out with Murdoch himself.

>Pastel coloured houses and Freedom
>furniture instead of Old Federation Home & Antique furniture? 
>
Well the whole Freedom thing is not my distinction...that belongs to 
another poster. Basically the difference is that the North Shore and 
Eastern Suburbs Liberals have no relation to the Shire ones. The beauty 
of Howard is that he united them. Hopefully Costello will divide them 
again in future.

Old Federation Home & Antique furniture? 

I may have to write out a list. Lenny Bruce used to do a great 
delineation between Jewish and Goyish...I'll have to write one up.

>The latter
>on the right side of 'Distinction' in your view? The former 'sold out'
>by making a few bucks and spending it on  'low culture'?
>
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See I have no problem with 'low culture'. I fact I don't believe in such 
a distinction...I am not an elitist (really) I

>What makes the fitter & turner, the butcher, the builder, the service
>station owner made good (standard issue Sutherland shire residents)
>lesser mortals because they shop at Westfield Miranda? (like the
>'working classes' don't....)
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>
Good point. It shouldn't appear like I am attacking the people here - I 
mean surely there is other public infrastructure in the area other than 
Miranda Mall...things like libraries etc. Things that are free to the 
communitity. I guess I am pissed off that no one worries about the 
continual erosion of public amenities and are given a Westfield instead. 
In those circumstances - I agree, what can the people do? I am just 
pissed off that I have to go all the way to Moore Park Supacenta when I 
need something from IKEA.

>These people are as multidimensional as you or I. Did they 'all' swing
>to Pauline Hanson in 1998? (My recollection is about 8% ONP vote in
>shire in 98 - they've been a safe Liberal seat since 1975) 
>
That's a pretty big swing for a racist party. I bet Labor wishes they 
had that swing on Sat night.
I used 'the Shire' as an example. I could have used the Hills district 
as well...no doubt inspiring more trouble...but the thing is I know I am 
the outsider in this situation - anyone on a CSAA list is. The problem 
is just gonna get worse...

>I'm also
>aware much of that vote came from booths in the western part of the
>shire - those more 'working class' /fibro house suburbs in the shire.
>  
>
Good to know.

>What about all the new Chinese residents in Sylvania Waters? Where do
>they fit in your schema?
>  
>
Well it's the only hope in my books. 'Break the (Anglo) Generational 
Curse' as evangelist Benny Hinn says.

>As Jean says, we must not (patronisingly) conflate cultural
>distinctions/'low culture' with issues based voting patterns. 
>  
>
True, I agree. My comments were tongue-in-cheek, although as Shakespeare 
said (or was it Benny Hinn...) ah doesn't matter.
I'm just cranky...
Basically the Arts and Humanities are first on the chopping block in 
this regime. I'll see you in accountancy...

>You will also find that many 'white trash' are keenly aware of their
>cultural marginalisation, created unthinkingly sometimes by the likes of
>us on the progressive left - creating the conditions for a counter
>identification with Howard's brand of 'everyday small business bloke
>made good' politics. 
>
Look you're right - I am in accord with you on this. I am cranky with 
Labor's lack of proper identification of who they should try and claw 
back...Is Mark Latham appealing to people in fibros? There are not many 
fibros around Werriwa now...plenty of what they call McMansions ala 
Hills district. Labor is gonna be pushing shit uphill...

>Our patronising and elitist cultural attitudes
>towards that demographic simply alienates them and puts then on the
>defensive. We are sometimes our own worst enemies...
>  
>
But the thing is - we are the alienated ones now...
John

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>-----Original Message-----
>From: csaa-forum-bounces at darlin.cdu.edu.au
>[mailto:csaa-forum-bounces at darlin.cdu.edu.au] On Behalf Of John Scannell
>Sent: Tuesday, 12 October 2004 1:08 PM
>To: CSAA discussion list
>Subject: Re: [csaa-forum] RE: wanting to be effluent
>
>Mel
>
>Your 'bogan' project is an insightful one...actually it also draws my 
>attention to the fact that I have always seen a rather strict 
>delineation between the bogan and what I perceive as the 'white trash' 
>threat.
>I know we don't use that term bogan here in NSW, discourse being what it
>
>is, but I have empathy with Bogans/Westies but find myself at odds with 
>white trash, mainly because of the element of delusional aspiration that
>
>I ascribe to the latter.
>For instance, in a Sydney based context I see Westies/Bogans as more 
>working class and aware of their marginalisation whereas for me 'white 
>trash' is the working class that think they are upwardly mobile and 
>forget how they acheived that mobility which is representing more and 
>more of this vaguely identified majoritarian group.
>So you could say that Westies are not the same people as those that hail
>
>from 'the Shire' - the Sutherland Shire in Sydney - who all swung to 
>Pauline Hanson a few years back and have swung to the Liberals again 
>now. Many of the Westies do listen to Meatloaf but they have probably 
>burnt the CDs rather than go to Miranda Fair to buy them.
>A great analogy can be found in Woody Allen's Small Time Crooks, which 
>although maligned by critics at the time I found to be much more 
>insightful about what the former working class does when its finds its 
>out of its depth in the cultural capital stakes. Far more insightful 
>than say a movie such as The Castle which has all of its archetypes 
>screwed up and pissed me off no end. Kath and Kim is similar in this 
>respect (although closer to white trash than boganism, they way I see 
>it). You can sort me out on that.
>Mark Latham needs to be more aware of this delineation (and I can offer 
>my services to the Labor party).
>They could easily get hold of the lists of subscribers to 'the Franklin 
>Mint' and the Hillsong Church for a start.
>This would help identify the those that they have lost forever and who 
>probably now live or are planning to live on the NSW central coast.
>John
>
>Mel Campbell wrote:
>
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>>Jean said: "I have to stick my head up here and object to the 
>>conflation that is going on here between (bad/debased) taste patterns,
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>>(low) class locations and the replacement of issues-based with 
>>aspirational politics, if that is indeed what's going on."
>> 
>>In turn I feel I must stick my head up here and say that even though I
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>>now hate my MA thesis and never want to revisit its stupid topic ever 
>>again, its main contention was that certain concepts (or discourses, 
>>as I Foucauldianly branded them) can be represented in the media as 
>>"identity categories" in order to smooth over temporarily the 
>>potential for political disquiet in Australia.
>> 
>>The example I used in the accursed thesis was the concept of the 
>>"bogan". I argued that 'bogan' is not a class. It's not a subculture. 
>>It's not an aesthetic. It's not a 'real' group of people at all. 
>>Instead, it's a technique, most visibly deployed in Australian 
>>media, and most clearly so over the last ten or so years, for 
>>polarising Australian society while reinforcing the social agenda of 
>>the government or ruling social group of the day.
>> 
>>In the case of the Howard government, parochial and long-standing 
>>'Australian values' have been re-articulated through the figure of the
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>>bogan (and similar undesirable "others") to serve their 
>>neo-liberal ideological interests. For example, the "battler" and the 
>>"fair go" have become "mutual obligation", "queue-jumpers", economic 
>>self-interest, and the systematic shift from public to private sector.
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>>And you know, I don't see Mark Latham as being substantially different
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>>on many of these issues, particularly his obsessive focus on 
>>individualism.
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>>But small-l liberals can be just as divisive. For example, the failure
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>>of the republican referendum was interpreted by republican supporters 
>>at the time as an "attack of the bogans", those ill-informed morons 
>>who would be left-leaning if only they were smart enough. That's why I
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>>find it patronising when I hear people bemoaning the stupidity of the 
>>Australian electorate last weekend.
>> 
>>Taste patterns, as Jean points out, are an important way of 
>>representing this cultural divide. I actually had a chapter about Kath
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>>& Kim in the damn thesis. I argued then (and still believe) that the 
>>real issue for us is to analyse how social divisions are constructed 
>>through the media, rather than reproducing them in our own thinking.
>> 
>>But might I add that I am no longer interested in the specific issue 
>>of bogans. I just wanted to draw your attention to a wider social 
>>technique that I see operating in Australia.
>> 
>>Cheers,
>> 
>>Mel.
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